1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,320 In the criminal justice system the people are represented 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:05,920 by two separate yet equally important groups - 3 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,080 the police who investigate crime, 4 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:10,800 and the Crown prosecutors who prosecute offenders. 5 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:12,840 These are their stories. 6 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:16,600 It's an oxymoron. No, it's not. 7 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:20,320 Matty, what are you talking about? 8 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,240 Sausages are made from meat, not soya. 9 00:00:23,240 --> 00:00:25,520 They certainly ain't made from vegetables. 10 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,720 Why should veggies be denied the pleasure of a sausage roll? 11 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,560 And it is half the fat. And half the taste. 12 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:33,600 I'm at the peak of my fitness. 13 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,040 Do not let this cuddly exterior fool you. 14 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:42,680 Blimey! Who died? 15 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,400 My office...now. 16 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:09,520 He's in there. 17 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:12,560 How could anyone? 18 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,120 He's five, maybe six. 19 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,920 Looks like he's only been dead a few hours. 20 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:49,720 Contusions round the... 21 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,000 Are you OK, Joy? 22 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,040 Take your time, love. 23 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,040 Contusions round the neck. 24 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:04,160 Petichiae round the eyes. 25 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,240 A bang to the back of the head. 26 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,600 There's curvilinear abrasions here and here, 27 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:13,720 suggesting strangulation. 28 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:15,760 And there's this. 29 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,240 Caused by something sharp and pointed, 30 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,840 bigger than a pin or a needle, though. 31 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:23,880 Looks like a letter R. 32 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:29,120 What's that on his lips? 33 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,600 There was a popping noise when I moved him 34 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:33,640 to examine the head wound. 35 00:02:33,640 --> 00:02:35,960 This was on the floor. 36 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,880 Someone's poured the whole lot into his mouth. 37 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:41,920 Crackle Candy. 38 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,000 Just when you think you've seen it all. 39 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,720 How can we have a body when the kid hasn't even been missed? 40 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,160 Cos the parents probably did it. 41 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,840 Maybe they're at work. It's half term. 42 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:44,600 Even the parents here with jobs can't afford a child minder. 43 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,160 They haven't even noticed he's missing. 44 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:54,840 Keep them as far away as possible. 45 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,840 There's CCTV all over this estate. They must have caught something. 46 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:01,760 If you can find one that works. 47 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,040 I'll get Intel onto it. Talk to the kids. 48 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:08,240 See if any of their mates have gone AWOL. 49 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,880 Darren's in the park doing it with Shania Chapman. 50 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,120 How old's Darren? 11. 51 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:17,080 11. Whatever happened to a game of conkers? 52 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,120 What's conkers? 53 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,560 Conor. Conor. 54 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,280 Conor. 55 00:04:24,280 --> 00:04:27,160 What's happening here? You all right, son. What's up? 56 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,480 My brother Conor was supposed to meet me hours ago. 57 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,280 How old's your brother? Six. 58 00:04:33,280 --> 00:04:36,160 When did you last see him? This morning. 59 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:39,040 I saw him. He was playing over there. 60 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,960 Then this smelly man come and took him. 61 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:48,760 Baseball cap, 62 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:50,800 with like a beard. 63 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,360 And wearing a leather jacket. That's what you said. 64 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,400 And you saw him with Conor? 65 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,080 He smelled like petrol. 66 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,120 Right. Devlin. 67 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,200 You were so close you could smell him? 68 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,440 He walked past her, didn't he? 69 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:09,520 When he walked past you, was Conor with him then? No. 70 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:13,840 He went in with Conor, but he come out on his own. OK. 71 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,560 They just picked up Conor's mum from work. 72 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:19,920 She's on her way to the mortuary. 73 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:58,520 I was late for work. 74 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,280 I didn't kiss him goodbye. 75 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:12,200 I'm very sorry, but we're going to need to ask you some questions. 76 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,480 Do you think he was really scared? 77 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:22,560 You've had some contact with Social Services over the kids? 78 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,720 My ex hit Liam once. 79 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,080 When I found out I packed his bags. 80 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:33,440 So there wasn't an adult you could leave him with? 81 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:35,920 You think I could afford a supernanny? 82 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,960 I work 12 hours a day to keep a roof over our heads. 83 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,920 I can't give up cos it's the school holidays. 84 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:46,280 So Liam looks after Conor while you're at work? Yeah. 85 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,080 Liam and the girls. 86 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:52,760 That's Paige Ward? Paige and her mate. 87 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:56,280 Always coming round asking if they can babysit. 88 00:06:57,800 --> 00:06:59,840 Conor loved them. 89 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:03,760 Can I get Buddy back? 90 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,880 That's his toy dog. He took him everywhere. 91 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,760 Of course. We need to keep him a bit longer, 92 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:16,200 but we'll let you have him back as soon as we can. I promise. 93 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,640 Julie, have you ever seen this man around the estate? 94 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,040 We think he's a mechanic. 95 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,800 Yeah. He looks like my neighbour's boyfriend - Rob something. 96 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,960 No. He works at the garage on Cold Harbour Lane. 97 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:35,920 You think it was him? 98 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,320 Maybe you should call your brief. 99 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,320 I don't need one cos I know nothing about no little boy. 100 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:47,560 I'm a red-blooded bloke. Look under my mattress if you don't believe me. 101 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:49,800 A witness saw you take him into the flats. 102 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,360 Only, you came out alone and he ended up dead. 103 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,120 The boy lived in the flat next door to your girlfriend. 104 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,640 A witness spotted you abduct him. They need their eyes testing. 105 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,120 I banged on my missus' door for ten minutes. 106 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,280 Then I went back to work. Did anyone see you leave? 107 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:06,320 I don't know, do I? 108 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,600 There was a girl. There was a girl. 109 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:22,040 She must have been about twelve-ish. 110 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,760 That's it? Yeah. 111 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,360 She had like fair hair. 112 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:31,880 She was a skinny thing. 113 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,400 And an Arsenal shirt. 114 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,360 And this was at Lexden House? Right by the door, 115 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,320 like she was waiting for someone to come out. 116 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:50,880 Here's the problem, Paige. 117 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,720 You say you saw the man at the empty flats they're pulling down. 118 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:56,760 He went inside with Conor. 119 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,000 I don't like her playing near them flats. 120 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:03,200 We think you saw the man at Lexden House where Conor lived. 121 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,720 No. Are you sure it wasn't Lexden House? 122 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,080 It was Peldon. I ain't lying, Mum. 123 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:11,840 Paige don't tell lies. She's a good girl. 124 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,400 You've never been to Lexden House at any time? No. 125 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:19,040 Are you sure about that? I said, didn't I? I told you. 126 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,440 Why's he picking on me? We just need you to help us out. 127 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:30,440 Yeah. Would you like a drink? Want a cup of tea, Matty? 128 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:32,200 Mrs Ward, would you like a cup of tea? 129 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,880 Cheers. Two sugars. OK. 130 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:40,440 I chewed my nails when I was a kid. 131 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:44,640 Especially if I was nervous. 132 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:48,800 We had a teacher who'd bang his hand on the table when he saw me do it. 133 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,480 Of course, that only made me do it even more. 134 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,480 You chew your nails cos you're nervous, don't you? 135 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,040 The thing is, Paige, 136 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,600 we've spoken to the man that you saw with Conor. 137 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:07,200 He says you saw him at Lexden House where Conor lived. 138 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:11,520 He was by Peldon. And you're absolutely certain? 139 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:16,040 Cross my heart. I won't be angry if you've made a mistake. We all do. 140 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,600 If you don't believe her, you can ask her mate. 141 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:20,640 Joined at the hip them two. 142 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:23,320 Someone else saw what happened? 143 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,800 Rose. She was with me the whole time. 144 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:31,960 Who is it? Police. 145 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,000 Open up, please. 146 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,040 Got a warrant? 147 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:40,040 Is your mum there, Rose? She's busy. 148 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:42,560 We just need you to open the door. 149 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:51,160 I'm only supposed to open the door if she screams. 150 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:57,280 Thank you. 151 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:22,160 I don't do threesomes. Your mate will have to wait. 152 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:25,920 Actually, we would like to talk to Rose 153 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,680 about the boy who died in the empty flats. 154 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,000 Rose don't know nothing about it. 155 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,560 Well, we think she could be a witness. 156 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,560 So we'd like you both to come to the station for a video ID. 157 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,920 Both girls picked out Denton from the video ID. 158 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:46,760 We have enough to charge him. 159 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,080 And Denton identified Paige outside the dead boy's flat. 160 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:54,320 Or he saw her at the murder scene. Denton has no previous with kids. 161 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:58,520 The cause of death was by manual strangulation. 162 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:00,560 No signs of sexual assault. 163 00:12:00,560 --> 00:12:03,680 He's been flying under the radar. The girls saw him. 164 00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:06,760 I still think Paige is lying. Because she chews her nails? 165 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,680 It's just a feeling. We can talk to her again. 166 00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:13,720 If the girls saw Denton take the kid, someone else must have. 167 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:15,440 Someone did. 168 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,000 There's something you need to see. 169 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,480 This is Denton outside his girlfriend's flat. 170 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,680 At 9:31 he heads towards the car park. 171 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,320 Then at 9:35... 172 00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:48,800 Another camera picks them up heading towards Peldon House. 173 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,880 Please, God, tell me this isn't what I think it is. 174 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,120 Look at her. Face of an angel. 175 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,520 Paige seems to trust you. 176 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,760 You take Rose, but I want a CPS member watching the interviews. 177 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,840 I want both girls arrested and cautioned before they speak. 178 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:16,360 You understand that you can have a solicitor here if you want one? 179 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,920 We don't need one. She ain't done nothing wrong, have you? No. 180 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:23,960 OK. 181 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,720 I want to talk about what happened to little Conor. 182 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,400 'You went out to play with your friend Paige. Is that right?' 183 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:36,680 'Yeah. We played football.' 'OK.' 184 00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:39,360 Do you know Conor - You know she does. 185 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,080 Miss Shaw, I need Rose to answer. Come on, then. 186 00:13:44,680 --> 00:13:47,800 Rose, did you go to Conor's flat the morning he died? 187 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,560 Yeah. Liam left him alone. 188 00:13:50,560 --> 00:13:53,040 So you and Paige took him out to play? 189 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:56,560 It ain't nice being left alone. Will this take much longer? 190 00:13:56,560 --> 00:14:00,560 Is there somewhere you need to be? I can get a social worker. 191 00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:04,600 You don't know me. Just get on with it, yeah? 192 00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:12,160 Where did you take Conor to play? 193 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,200 By Peldon House. 194 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,680 But then this man come and took Conor inside. 195 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,720 You know that's where we found Conor, Peldon House? 196 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,480 Did he just lay down and die? 197 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,120 I think you know how he died, Rose. 198 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,440 I don't think there was any man there at all. 199 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,480 Yes, there was a man. Look, the man took him. 200 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:41,520 Ask him what happened to Conor. 201 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,320 I don't think you're telling me the truth. Yes, I am! 202 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:48,360 You can call that social worker. Mum, you can't leave me. 203 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,160 Just listen to what he says. You say, "No comment." 204 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,600 I want to go home with my mum. Stay there. 205 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:59,440 I used to sit in these rooms just as twitchy as you. Calm down. 206 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,800 Kelly, listen to me. 207 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,960 I was worrying about when I'd get my next drink. 208 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,720 Mum! Shut up! 209 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:13,360 Kelly! Today could be the first day you don't use. You do have a choice. 210 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,400 Your habit or your daughter. 211 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:20,920 Mum. Mum! Mum! Mum, please! 212 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,080 So you like Arsenal? 213 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:36,000 They're the best. It's OK to support them if you're from South London 214 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,680 cos really they're from Woolwich. They moved north in the past. 215 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,600 That's right. And you have number 11 on your shirt. Van Persie? 216 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:47,440 Rachel Yankey done this talk at our school. Arsenal Ladies. 217 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,760 It's all she goes on about. 218 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,120 Maybe one day you'll be the next Yankey. 219 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,680 I'll never be as good as her. I played a bit as a kid. 220 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,160 We had a scout from Arsenal come round our school. 221 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,040 Only, I was so nervous about not being picked 222 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,960 I pulled a sickie. So you didn't even try? 223 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:09,680 I wanted to, but the truth is I was too scared of messing up. 224 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:15,000 I've never told anyone that before. I feel better now I've told you. 225 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,040 You know when you try and keep a secret, 226 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:23,760 and you wanna tell, it sort of hurts to keep it inside. 227 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,760 If you share it with a friend, it feels better. 228 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:32,000 You see, Paige, I think you have a secret 229 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,520 about what happened to little Conor. 230 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:37,320 And we're friends, aren't we? 231 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:41,600 Let me share your secret. 232 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,400 Make it stop hurting. 233 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,440 Mum. 234 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:57,760 She's so close I can smell it. 235 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,920 When my girls were little, I took them to the fair one Sunday. 236 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,840 We were queuing up. I was paying for them to go on this ride. 237 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,760 A typical Sunday dad, over-compensating. 238 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,520 I've got toys and prizes I'd won. 239 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,320 Pop corn. Candy floss. All that stuff. 240 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,920 I turned round, and the little un' had gone. 241 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,560 Just disappeared, and the place was mobbed. 242 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,800 That is really, truly frightening to me. 243 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:41,600 Do you know where she was? 244 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:43,640 And me a copper, an' all! 245 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,880 She'd sneaked into the stall next door, 246 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,160 and was trying to nick a goldfish. 247 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:52,800 I tell you, kids, mate! 248 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,200 It's frightening. 249 00:17:57,120 --> 00:17:59,160 We should get back in there. 250 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,200 Yeah. 251 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:04,360 Just give us a minute. 252 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,920 Tell me it ain't true you got them girls in there. 253 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,840 They wouldn't hurt my Conor. They wouldn't! 254 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,720 We're just talking to them at the moment. 255 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,760 But they're just kids. Tell me they didn't do it! 256 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:26,800 Please, I need it. 257 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,240 That's you, isn't it, Paige? 258 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,200 Number 11, like Rachel Yankey. 259 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,640 And that's Rose, isn't it? 260 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,720 And that's Conor. 261 00:18:57,120 --> 00:18:59,320 You see, there's cameras all over the estate. 262 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,640 They take pictures of people walking about, 263 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:04,240 going in and out of the blocks. 264 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,480 This picture was taken about 20 minutes before Conor died. 265 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,040 There's other pictures that show the man you picked out 266 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,160 leaving the estate before Conor died. 267 00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:29,720 Do you think mum realises just how serious this is? 268 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:34,000 Who wants to believe their kid's involved with something like this? 269 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,520 The poor woman's in shock. 270 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:42,000 I would be if that was one of my girls sat there. 271 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,880 Maybe we should get Matt to ask again if they want a brief. 272 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,320 She's gonna spill any second. 273 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:53,280 You know I love you, babe, no matter what you done. 274 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,960 You have to tell the policeman the truth. 275 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,640 Who went into Peldon House with Conor? 276 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,680 Just me and Rose. 277 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,520 And little Conor. We took him. 278 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:10,560 And did someone hurt Conor? 279 00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:13,400 He was crying. 280 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,440 He wanted his mum. 281 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,760 And Rose put her hands around his neck. 282 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:23,760 He tried to get her off, 283 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:27,320 but he fell back and banged his head against the wall. 284 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,120 It's OK, baby. It's OK. 285 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,520 What happened next, Paige? She got on top of him. 286 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:37,800 'Started squeezing his neck again. 287 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,240 When she got off he just lay there.' 288 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,640 And then she got out this compass, 289 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,680 like we use in Maths, 290 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,720 and told me to scratch my name on his tummy. 291 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,040 And you did it? 292 00:20:57,960 --> 00:20:59,960 I only did the P. 293 00:21:01,120 --> 00:21:03,400 I couldn't do the rest. 294 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,560 Then she took it off me, 295 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:10,240 and done another line to make it an R for Rose. 296 00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:16,280 Can we go home now? 297 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,560 'Police have arrested two girls aged 10 and 13 298 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,320 on suspicion of the murder of five-year-old Conor Reid. 299 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:33,200 Conor was found dead at the Kelvedon Estate last week. 300 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,080 It's believed the girls were moved to a secret location last night 301 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:41,800 after the police station came under siege from angry protestors.' 302 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,360 This is getting out of hand, and we haven't even charged them. 303 00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:49,440 Little girl killers - the public can't stomach it. 304 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,480 It's understandable. 305 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,320 Kids killing kids. 306 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,640 This is as bad as it gets. 307 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:04,600 What are the girls saying? 308 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,760 They blame each other. What about the forensics? 309 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,240 The girls were tested too late for contact trace evidence. 310 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,400 We're waiting on the analysis of their clothing. 311 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,680 Till then there's no way to know who is telling the truth? 312 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,640 The police believe Paige is telling the truth, 313 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,680 that Rose is the killer. She cooperated fully. 314 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,360 She'll give evidence against Rose in court. 315 00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:30,320 What does her brief want in return? A Section 73 agreement. 316 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,600 Paige has given a statement 317 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:37,040 detailing exactly how Rose Shaw killed Conor Reid. 318 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,840 She's a witness, nothing more. 319 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:44,320 Your client carved her initial into the dead boy's skin. 320 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,360 She colluded with her friend to concoct a story. 321 00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:50,560 Under duress from Rose Shaw. Come on, Luke! 322 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:54,080 Rose is three years younger than your client. 323 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,520 And bright as a button. Paige has learning difficulties. 324 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:03,880 The police believe Rose Shaw acted alone. A jury will, too. 325 00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:09,080 Paige pleads guilty to assisting an offender. 326 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:13,640 She's practically handing you Rose Shaw with bells on. 327 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,280 The least you can do is drop the charges. 328 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,720 That's the deal. Take it or leave it. 329 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,360 We sign that agreement, there's no going back. 330 00:23:22,360 --> 00:23:25,640 Paige gets immunity except on assisting an offender. 331 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:28,880 OK. Get the papers signed. 332 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,720 But we charge Rose with murder. 333 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:33,760 Who's her brief? 334 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,240 You so don't want to know. 335 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,040 Come on. How bad can it be? 336 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,960 There he is, Balls of Steel. 337 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,080 Kim. You don't call. You don't write. 338 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,800 You didn't seriously expect any deals? 339 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:55,520 You did get my email? Don't tell me it's still floating in cyberspace. 340 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,000 I told our new clerk when we need to disclose something to the Crown 341 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,040 now means now. What are you disclosing? 342 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,720 I've brought you a spare copy just in case. 343 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,000 Deep breaths. 344 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,360 Rose Shaw is ten years old. 345 00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:32,000 She played no part in this horrific crime, 346 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,840 and is devastated to learn her best friend says otherwise. 347 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,200 I ask you to release this poor child into her mother's care. 348 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,480 Miss Sharkey, much as it irks me to have to consider 349 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,760 locking up a ten-year-old, Paige Ward has your client 350 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,520 choking a boy to death with her bare hands. 351 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,560 I simply cannot ignore such a statement. 352 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,440 Indeed you cannot, My Lord, were said statement taken legally. 353 00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:00,080 However... I suggest that is not the case, 354 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,680 and hereby apply to have Paige Ward's interview excluded. 355 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:08,560 I request an immediate adjournment. The Crown have not been informed of any such application. 356 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:14,240 And yet Miss Phillips appears to have a copy right there in front of her. 357 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,280 Because you handed it over five minutes ago. 358 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,440 Either it was disclosed or it was not, Mr Steel. 359 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,000 Continue, Ms Sharkey. 360 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:28,120 At her interview, Paige was not accompanied by a solicitor 361 00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:30,280 or an appropriate adult. 362 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:34,720 She was accompanied by her mother who refused legal representation. 363 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,960 A woman with an IQ below a 12-year-old's. 364 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,440 Unlike their morals, which my colleague shares. 365 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:46,320 Miss Sharkey, Mr Steel, my chambers now, please. 366 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,200 After meeting Paige's mother I had her IQ tested. 367 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,080 We also found she has learning difficulties and mild autism. 368 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,760 There wasn't time to second-guess her IQ. 369 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,680 The police had act quickly to gather evidence. 370 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:05,240 They coerced a 13-year old girl into saying what they wanted to hear. 371 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,800 They bribed her with a meal, and chatted about her hobbies. 372 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,480 The officer was creating a bond of trust. 373 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,840 They assumed the mother would intervene if she was unhappy. 374 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,840 She wouldn't have intervened if DS Devlin had danced the fandango. 375 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,240 The only one making a song and dance is you. 376 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,480 What have you got for your finale - Enough! 377 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,120 The whole point of an appropriate adult 378 00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:32,640 is to safeguard the rights and welfare of young people in custody. 379 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,560 I intend to play this one with a straight bat. 380 00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:41,560 I'm granting Ms Sharkey's application 381 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,600 to exclude the statement. 382 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,280 That statement put Rose's hands round Conor's neck. 383 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,840 The Section 73 based on it, now we can't even use it! 384 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,880 You must have realised Tina Ward wasn't an appropriate adult. 385 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:01,920 Do I look like Derren Brown? 386 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,680 She came across like half the adults we meet. 387 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,120 We don't deal with Mensa candidates. 388 00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:12,360 Any other judge would have thrown Sharkey out of court. Blame Justice Pedotti. 389 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,680 Do we have a case without that statement? 390 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:21,160 Please tell me forensics will confirm Rose's guilt. 391 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,720 Without a doubt. Conor's DNA will be all over Rose Shaw's clothing. 392 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,200 Let's get this over with, then. 393 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:37,080 We represent Conor, which means we represent you. 394 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,720 We're certain the forensic analysis of the girl's clothing 395 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,600 will give us the evidence we need to put Rose behind bars for a long time. 396 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,640 She'll go to prison? 397 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,520 Initially she'll remain in secure local authority care. 398 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,520 When she's old enough she'll go to a young offenders' institution. 399 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,560 Then an adult prison. 400 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:02,160 Her whole childhood. She won't be released until her early 20s. 401 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:08,000 I saw this woman on the news last night. 402 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,840 She said Rose Shaw was Satan reborn, 403 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,080 that they should bring back hanging just for her. 404 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,200 I've never heard so much hate in someone's voice. 405 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,680 Public feeling is very strong. 406 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,320 All these flowers on the estate, 407 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,760 sack loads of cards every day like they all knew him. 408 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,880 All of them out there feeding off my boy's death. 409 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,640 Then it takes over their lives. 410 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,560 It's like they need it. 411 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,120 The funny thing is all I want... 412 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:45,920 ..all I need is to let it go. 413 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,240 The trial can help you do that. 414 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,360 Sending her to prison won't help me. 415 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:55,720 It won't bring my boy back. 416 00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:03,920 Most victims' families find it gives them a sense of closure. 417 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,120 Closure? This ain't closure. 418 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,600 This is revenge. 419 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,040 No, that little girl don't deserve it. 420 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:15,880 She's been through enough. 421 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,720 We live on the same estate. I know what goes on in there. 422 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,480 She broke the law in the most terrible way. 423 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,520 She's a child. 424 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,600 Want to hide her behind a ten-foot wall so no-one has to look at her? 425 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:36,480 No-one has to ask her who's really responsible for Conor's death? 426 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,520 No. 427 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,200 No, no. It's too easy. 428 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,320 Prosecuting kids is never easy. 429 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,160 My Conor, he used to... 430 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,640 he liked to draw them pictures, 431 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,960 the ones where you put the paint through straws. 432 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,480 He loved dogs. 433 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,240 That's how I wanna remember him. 434 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,920 My happy little boy. 435 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,800 I don't want my memories clouded by hate. 436 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:18,800 Would you want your son brought up in a world with no hope? 437 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,720 You can't save Conor. 438 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,760 But you can save her. 439 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,160 Yeah, you can give Rosie Shaw a life. 440 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,040 You can forgive her? 441 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:38,920 I hate what she did 442 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,720 with every bone in my body, but... 443 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:48,960 ..but I'm a mum. 444 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,080 I can't hate a child. 445 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,480 You say you represent me, 446 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,120 then this is what you do. 447 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:05,040 You make Conor's life mean something. 448 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:10,040 You find out why she did it, and you get that little girl help. 449 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,760 We have to help her. 450 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,080 We can't just drop a murder charge. 451 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:26,280 The DPP will have your balls and mine. Not just the DPP. 452 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,360 The Attorney General wants Rose convicted of murder. 453 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,960 So that's it. Our hands are tied. 454 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:35,880 Not on my watch. 455 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:37,920 You heard what Mrs Reid wants. 456 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,560 What do we do? 457 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,720 My granddaughter is the same age. 458 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,880 She spends her time riding ponies and making daisy chains. 459 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,600 I want to know what makes a girl of ten 460 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,960 put her hands round a child's neck, 461 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,240 and squeeze the life out of him. 462 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,760 Rose, did you worry what your mum was doing with these men? 463 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:10,520 My mum says that psychiatrists mess up your brain waves. 464 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,320 Is that what you're gonna do to me? 465 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:18,800 Dr Marsh believes the abuse changed the physiology of Rose's nervous system, 466 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,840 which means her responsibility was diminished at the killing. 467 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,800 We offer Sharkey a deal, then, 468 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,600 get Rose the help she needs. 469 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,440 The police just called. Forensics are in. 470 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,320 Are you sure? Forensics don't lie. Kids do. 471 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,360 But everyone was so certain. 472 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:43,200 There are 148 microscopic spots of blood on the front of her shirt. 473 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,040 Which means that when the boy died, 474 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,480 the one with her hands around his throat was Paige Ward. 475 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,680 We have a Section 73 signed and sealed. 476 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,520 You can't charge Paige with anything further in this case. 477 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,760 Your client had Conor's blood all over her shirt. 478 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,440 Which means that when Conor Reid died 479 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,000 the person in contact with him was indeed Paige, 480 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,440 and not Rose Shaw. 481 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,480 It isn't true. It was Rose. 482 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,920 Must I remind you again, gentlemen, 483 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,680 my client isn't here to be interrogated. 484 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,920 Paige, you trust me, don't you? 485 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,200 I need you to tell me the truth. 486 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,240 We can walk out of here right now. 487 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:35,440 It's not what you think. You don't have to say another word. 488 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,880 I want to explain. After she done it, Rose just left. 489 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,360 I picked Conor up, 490 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,760 but he made this noise, like a cough sort of. 491 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,320 Why did you move him? I wanted to take him home to his mum. 492 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,600 But then Rose come back with the compass. 493 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,160 I swear I didn't hurt Conor. 494 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,240 I put the toys there in case he got lonely. 495 00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:02,880 The pathologist has re-examined Conor's body. 496 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,200 He found pulmonary interstitial emphysema - 497 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,760 a build up of pressure in Conor's lungs 498 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,600 caused by blood blocking the airways. 499 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,040 It could have been released when Paige lifted him up 500 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,000 or when she was choking him. 501 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,080 So much for forensics proving which one did it. 502 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,240 Sharkey will have a field day with this. 503 00:34:23,240 --> 00:34:25,160 Maybe not. 504 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,360 According to the forensic report, 505 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,560 there were seven curvilinear abrasions on Conor's neck. 506 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,760 Three at the front were made by Conor trying to prise his attacker's hands off. 507 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,480 Four at the back made by his attacker choking him. 508 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,920 The report said without finding Conor's skin 509 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:42,960 in the fingernail scrapings 510 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,400 there was no way to know which girl made them. 511 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,400 But Paige's fingernails are bitten to the quick. 512 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,520 The nail marks on the back of Conor's neck. 513 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:57,040 Rose Shaw has a defect on the nail of her left forefinger. 514 00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,160 The same defect can be seen in those marks. 515 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:04,560 148 spots of blood on a shirt spell murder to a jury. 516 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,360 Four nail marks spell a bit of rough play. 517 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,920 You should give juries more credit, Kim. 518 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,760 Lucky for you we don't intend to put this to a jury. 519 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,560 A deal? I'll accept a manslaughter plea 520 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,600 due to diminished responsibility. 521 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,560 Rose gets a hospital order with a Section 41 restriction. 522 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:23,920 You want to put her in hospital? 523 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,160 Don't you? Rose needs treatment. 524 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,440 Thanks, but no thanks. 525 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,360 I'm giving your client a way out of a murder charge. 526 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:37,240 It's in Rose's best interests to have someone try and fix her. 527 00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:40,680 The child's a monster. I doubt anyone could fix her. 528 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,760 You're only offering a deal because you're worried I'll win. 529 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:48,760 Forget Rose. You just don't want to give up your 15 minutes. 530 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,480 Cases like this come along once in a lifetime. 531 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:56,040 They're career makers. This isn't a short cut to silk! 532 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,800 It's a child's life. Do calm down, James, 533 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,720 or you'll be comparing ulcers with George. 534 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,960 The jury are going to see a very pretty little girl 535 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,160 and hear how the Crown made a deal with a teenager 536 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,200 who had the victim's blood all over her shirt. 537 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,320 I know who I'd believe. 538 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,160 She's a killer. 539 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,440 When the jury see photographs of a strangled five-year-old, 540 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,720 they'll want her in a prison cell. 541 00:36:25,720 --> 00:36:30,840 The prison system can't provide the treatment this girl needs. 542 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,120 Why the preoccupation about treatment? 543 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:37,000 The public don't care about treating killers. They ought to. 544 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,680 If we send her to hospital, she will be released 545 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,760 only if and when she's no longer a danger. 546 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,840 Justice Pedotti will make sure she gets a minimum of 12 years. 547 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,560 There's no votes in being soft on children who commit crimes. 548 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,560 I don't decide on the basis of what gets the Home Secretary most votes. 549 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,960 Lock her away, and you might as well kill her. 550 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:01,920 I'm not asking. As Director of Public Prosecutions, I'm telling. 551 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,080 You try that girl for murder... 552 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,120 and you make sure she's convicted. 553 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:17,640 That woman was put on this earth just to irritate my duodenum. 554 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,880 Whatever it takes, you guarantee that that jury find 555 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,760 on manslaughter, diminished responsibility, 556 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,400 and not murder. I want that girl in a hospital, not a prison. 557 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,640 What about the DPP? Screw the DPP? 558 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:31,880 I answer to Conor's mother on this one. 559 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,400 Dr Guinott talks about kids being like white cement. 560 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,240 Whatever falls on them makes an impression. 561 00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:42,680 In Rose's case, her abusive upbringing 562 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,040 means she has a callous lack of concern for others. 563 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,080 So she lashes out. 564 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,520 Is she in control of her actions? 565 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,640 I don't believe at the time of the killing she intended to kill 566 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,080 or understood the permanency of death. 567 00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:00,440 Can her condition be treated? It must be treated. 568 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,960 Rose needs intensive psychotherapy 569 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,200 and pharmaceutical treatment. Thank you. 570 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,640 No further questions. 571 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:13,920 Did you examine Paige Ward? 572 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:18,080 No. Because the Crown didn't ask you to. 573 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:24,600 That's right. Yet Rose told you repeatedly Paige killed Conor. 574 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:26,640 Yes, but denial - 575 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:30,600 How are we to know what Paige Ward's mental state was 576 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:34,560 when Conor's blood splashed all over the front of her shirt 577 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,480 or when she carved her initial into his stomach? 578 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:41,320 Does my learned friend assume the witness has psychic powers? 579 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,560 How else could he answer such questions? 580 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,600 Please reserve questions regarding blood evidence 581 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:51,320 for the appropriate expert witness. Apologies. No further questions. 582 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,280 "Evil from the day she was born." 583 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,800 How can a mother say that about her own child? 584 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,280 Trial by tabloid, just what we needed. 585 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,320 The trial's not even over 586 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,880 and she has the public baying for her daughter's blood! 587 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:06,400 Along with the jury. 588 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:10,760 Any chance of them believing her diminished responsibility, her mum just blew it. 589 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,200 Find a way to make that jury see what we see. 590 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,400 I'm sorry. I don't know what else we can do. 591 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,560 Make them see Conor Reid is not the only victim. 592 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,560 Rose Shaw is an abused child. She's a victim, too. 593 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,200 No comment. 594 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,360 Reporting restrictions exist to protect your daughter. 595 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,080 You don't care about her welfare. 596 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:41,200 I don't know what you mean. Thanks to your snivelling to the tabloids, 597 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:45,360 the whole country have already made up their minds about her. 598 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,520 You shouldn't be talking to her. 599 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,960 Why not? She isn't a witness. She should be. 600 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,720 If the jury saw her true colours, they'd lock her up, not Rose. 601 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:57,920 So let's call her. 602 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,080 Can you tell the court how you make your living? 603 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:12,960 I ain't on trial here. 604 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,040 Can you answer the question, please? 605 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,880 I'm a masseur. You're a prostitute, are you not? 606 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,120 We don't all have parents to fund us through university. 607 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,720 Is Rose aware of what you do? 608 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,320 When the police came to talk to Rose, 609 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,560 you were engaged in a sex act while she was in the next room. 610 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,840 Plenty of mums work from home these days. 611 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,440 Rose told Dr Marsh she'd seen her mother working. 612 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:43,720 Doctors twist things. She'd also seen sadistic pornographic films 613 00:40:43,720 --> 00:40:47,400 which you watched with clients. They turn her into a killer? 614 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:51,480 Did one DVD show a man passing out having been manually asphyxiated 615 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:56,120 during sex, and another showed a man taking pleasure in being cut? 616 00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,720 You can't prove she saw them. Can you prove she didn't? 617 00:40:58,720 --> 00:41:02,000 I done my best for her. Were you doing your best for Rose 618 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,280 when you tried to give her to a stranger when she was six weeks? 619 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,160 I was 16. It weren't easy stuck on your own with a kid. 620 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,640 What about when you sold her cot to fund your crystal meth habit? 621 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:15,040 I had a problem then. I owed money. Rose don't go without now. 622 00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:19,560 Because you work as a prostitute in a room next door to hers? 623 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,280 She don't see nothing. She doesn't hear it? 624 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,880 She doesn't deal with the fallout? 625 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,720 Like the time you were beaten senseless by a client? 626 00:41:27,720 --> 00:41:31,080 That only happened once. How would you have protected Rose 627 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,360 if this client had decided to turn his attentions to her? 628 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,040 He didn't. Can you be sure of that? 629 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,480 You were unconscious for quite some time. 630 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:43,440 It wasn't until your next client turned up six hours later 631 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,800 that an ambulance was called. Rose was OK. 632 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,120 Rose was four. She thought you were dead. 633 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,560 But you don't really care what happens to her. Not true. 634 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:56,560 You don't care that she's choking a five-year-old boy so long as it doesn't interfere with your habit. 635 00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:58,520 You're making out I'm a bad mum. 636 00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:02,200 I am shouting it loud and clear. You are a terrible mum. 637 00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:06,200 You haven't got the first idea how to take care of your own child. 638 00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,240 I didn't kill that kid. You might as well have done. 639 00:42:09,240 --> 00:42:15,200 You turned her into exactly what she is, did you not? 640 00:42:23,720 --> 00:42:25,760 No further questions, My Lord. 641 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,680 On the charge of murder, how do you find? 642 00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:47,560 Guilty. 643 00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:00,760 Rose Shaw, 644 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,680 you have been found guilty of murder. 645 00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,320 You alone are responsible for the death 646 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,680 of a defenceless five-year-old boy. 647 00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:16,760 What you did to that child is every parent's worst nightmare. 648 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,880 I've heard all I need regarding your state of mind 649 00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,560 and the circumstances of your background, 650 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:30,640 and see no need to wait for further reports before sentencing. 651 00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:37,520 I hereby sentence you to be detained at Her Majesty's pleasure 652 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,920 with a minimum term of 12 years. 653 00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:47,960 Rose! 654 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,800 Mum! Mum, please! 655 00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:18,960 Will she serve the whole 12 years? 656 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:20,760 I don't know. 657 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:23,440 Dr Marsh has agreed to work with her in the secure unit 658 00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:25,680 and when she's 15, 659 00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,640 rest assured, I will personally appeal against her move to prison. 660 00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,160 Connor used to sleep in my bed. 661 00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,560 Never could settle him into a cot. 662 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:43,040 In my arms, he'd sleep ten hours straight. 663 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,760 I used to watch him half the night thinking how lucky I was. 664 00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,760 Bet no-one ever looked at Rose and felt lucky. 665 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:00,760 Thanks.